Davos 2023: Women’s Leadership: Towards Parity in Power

This transcript, generated from speech recognition technology, has been edited for web readers, condensed for clarity, and may differ slightly from the audio.

Saadia Zahidi: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. Apologies for the non-Swiss start time, but we'll make sure that we catch up and have a very good conversation. My name is Saadi Zahidi. I'm a managing director at the World Economic Forum and we'll be discussing today women's leadership and getting towards parity in power. I could not be more thrilled than to have with us an amazing panel who are women in positions of power, but who can also tell us so much more about how we do this more broadly for the world as a whole.

Every year, the World Economic Forum publishes a global gender gap report annually for the last 16 years to understand where we stand in terms of making progress on gender equality, we look at health, we look at education. We look at economic participation and at political empowerment.

And pre-pandemic, it would have taken at the current rates of progress about 100 years to get to gender parity. Now, three years into this pandemic, it will take 136 years to get to parity. Now, that's a couple of generations that just got added to getting to gender parity. And it's absolutely not what any of us want. Hundred years, a century, was unacceptable. But now this is even slower. So how do we reverse that?

And we have with us today Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: and we agreed that henceforth I will be calling her only Sviatlana.

On this panel we have with us Arancha Gonzalez Laya, dean of the Paris School of International Affairs, Science Po Paris.

We have with us Masih Alinejad, who is a freelance journalist and women's rights activist from Iran. And last but not least, we have Gretchen Whitmer, governor of the state of Michigan.

Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for joining us for this very important conversation. Governor, if I may start with you. How do we not only create opportunities for women to move into the highest offices, but also create conditions for them to thrive once they get there?

Gretchen Whitmer: I appreciate the question. I'm awfully glad to be here, especially with this incredibly courageous group of women who have done some amazing things around the globe. It's an honour to be among you all. I start with this. You know, you cited the WEF study and we know dealing with the pandemic, that we called it a she-cession because it took such a disproportionate impact on women who left the workforce in droves to care for families, to ensure that the kids were getting online and that everyone was safe at home.

And disproportionately it took women out of the workplace. We also know that there are too few women in the C-suite in the private sector, as well as leading. Whether it is, sadly, the prime minister of New Zealand who announced her departure today, or it is across governments in the US or around the globe. I think that it's more important than ever that we are recognising this and working to eliminate the barriers that keep women from these leadership positions.

I can tell you as the Governor of Michigan, we have fought for and secure women's reproductive rights in a state where it was very much at risk of going back 100 years. I can tell you that we have secured paid leave, paid family leave for all state employees by virtue of my pen and my pen alone, expanded access to day-care and really made Michigan a place where women have opportunity.

There's much, much more work to do. But there's, without question, a real need for women in leadership positions. Companies that empower women do better. States that have female leaders find that issues that families are confronting are addressed and given voice to.

And so as someone who was kind of forged in the fire of being a sandwich generation, and what I mean is I simultaneously was caring for my mother, who was dying of brain cancer and a daughter I had just given birth to - I confronted all of the things that families are struggling with, and that's why I put so much energy into that. All of that being said, we as a globe still struggle to ensure that there is real equity and opportunity. I'm proud of the strides we've made, but I am determined to continue to do more and work across state borders and international borders to lend my support, to learn best practices and to share what we've learned in Michigan.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you so much, Governor. Arancha, you have spent your career in government, in international organizations, currently in academia. What does the sectoral picture look like? Where do you think progress will be faster?

Arancha Gonzalez Laya: Let me first thank you and thank the Forum for putting this item on the agenda, because at the end of the day, this is one of the items that we require to make our societies work better and to make our democracies work better. We like at least I think I speak on this side of the table, we love democracies and we talk a lot about how to make democracies work better, and they will not work better if half of the participants in those democracies are not included. It's not that we talk about them. It's not that we discuss about them. It is that they be parts, they be agents. So where are the agents? The agents are at the base of our society. We just went through a massive health crisis. Where were the women? They were nurses. They were doctors. They were workers at the base of the pyramid. And they saved us, by the way. Where are the women? The women are in the education sector. Where are the women? The women are in science. Because what matters is using your brains. And women have plenty of brains to use.

But where are they not? They are not in positions of power. And by the way, power, it's very hostile to women. We've just seen it this morning. And Gretchen mentioned Jacinda Ardern and I want to mention Jacinda Ardern. We know that politics is in an inhospitable territory. I've been in politics, Gretchen is in politics. Sviatlana [inaudible] is in politics. And we know it's not an inhospitable place, but it's more inhospitable to women than it is to men. And this is something that we should not accept. So again, the base is full of bright women.

Our economies, our companies are full of bright women. But we need to make sure that this is not just at the heart of the base of our societies and our economies, that they also take the positions of leadership, mostly because diversity, which is what women will add when they get to positions of power, add to the quality and to the solidity of the results. And frankly, we need a little bit of quality and solidity of results.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you, Arancha. Sviatlana is leader of the Democratic Forces of Belarus. Could you share with us what are the specific challenges in places which do not have a very long history of having women in positions of power?

Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: You know, I have to say that I grew up in a post-Soviet Union, the country where our girls from their childhood were told that your biggest achievement in your life should be good marriage. And everything that is, you know, large scale or complex is not acceptable, is inaccessible to you. And, you know, of course, I don't want to say that a good marriage is a very easy thing. But I think that women should understand that they shouldn't devote all their talents and experience only to their family. Our women are capable of everything. The only problem is that they do not always believe in themselves. So I really want our women to believe in themselves.

And I am sure that this uncertainty, internal uncertainty, of any women is a problem, especially as I mentioned in the post-Soviet Union countries, because Western countries, you know, they moved further in this direction. There is no such problems with the women's rights as in our countries. So and even if, you know, when we think about marriage, about home taking care of home, I have to say that if, for example, to take a country as your home. And women usually are very well in taking care of home. So the presidents and prime ministers of the countries should be women.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you, Masih. All of us are familiar with the current situation in Iran, with women so bravely fighting for their freedoms. What's your assessment of the current situation? How do you see things unfolding?

Masih Alinejad: First of all, I have to say that I'm very thankful. Finally, finally, a World Economic Forum invited an Iranian woman not in a side panel. Mostly the dictators were welcomed here. Same thing for years and years. And that actually shows you the women of Iran need to fight every single day.

We're talking about women leadership. Women. Being free women in Iran is a crime. I'm coming from a country that thinking of being part of the leadership, it's just - it’s a crime and people are facing guns and bullets right now in the streets because they want to be their true self.

Women are getting lashes, women are getting killed, women are getting raped, women are getting harassed, bullied online just because of thinking of having dignity and freedom.

For years and years, I have been actually campaigning against compulsory hijab and telling women that if you really want to have freedom, dignity, democracy, you have to start your own revolution from your family's kitchen. You have to be your own leader. Otherwise, you're not going to have a chance to have a single word. You're not going to be heard. So clearly, this is what's going on in Iran right now. Every single woman, teenagers, schoolgirls, they're leading the revolution because we believe that this is the first time in the history that women are being united with men shoulder to shoulder to bring [down] a dictatorship, which is telling us what to wear, how to think, what kind of lifestyle to follow.

So, I'm here today to tell you that we need you to show your sisterhood, and solidarity with the women of Iran who are trying to save the rest of the world from one of the most dangerous regimes, which is called Islamic Republic. And thank you so much.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you, Masih, for your courage and for those inspiring words. You've given us the first answer to the question for today's conversation. How do we get more women into positions of leadership? You asked for solidarity. Let me turn that question to others, Governor. How do we build those pathways?

Gretchen Whitmer: I think it starts with supporting women who are stepping out front. It starts with having one another's back and showing that there is a path to leadership and intentionally for leaders, especially for male leaders, to intentionally create those paths and help ensure that women get that seat in the C-suite or support a woman who's running for office or who's leading an organization or a department at a university.

I think that throughout the last few years with COVID and with all of the angst and polarisation and ugliness that we've seen play out, not just in the United States but in other places, but obviously I'm thinking about the US, we've had to make a lot of hard decisions, and I can tell you, as the one of very few women governors, I was chatting with some of my male colleagues and one of them asked me, you know, Gretchen, you're doing the same things that the rest of us are doing, but you take so much more heat for it. There's a plot to kidnap and to assassinate me. Why do you get so much more heat? And when the last word landed, he said, never mind, don't answer. I know. It's because you're the woman who is making these hard decisions.

And I appreciated that from my colleague because he recognises that hardship and he is an intentional creator of paths for other women to find their way into leadership. But I think that it's really important for young women to be able to see themselves in a leader. The highest compliment I imagine any of us receives as when a young woman comes up and says, I think I can do that because I see you doing it. So, supporting and encouraging and going out of our way to be intentional about finding those opportunities and helping women and young people get those internships and get those early opportunities to lead.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you. Sviatlana, can I come to you next? I think we've discussed now this aspect of leadership being so much more difficult and potentially so much more dangerous for women. How do we build those pathways then? And you and I discussed this idea of accidental leadership. How do we get so much more women, not accidentally but intentionally into power?

Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: You know that I go to politics by fate. I have never studied politics. Yesterday, I was in the kitchen. Next day I'm in big politics. And you know what is still my big problem is this imposter syndrome, this imposter complex. And, you know, I have to say that all the people, especially opponents, you know, they like happily and quite often remind me that you are not experienced. You don't have the right to be in big politics because you haven't studied for years for this.

And I know that I'm young, I know that I'm not experienced. I know that my path is different from the path of other politicians. But, you know, for the last two years and a half, I went through a path that maybe not every of my critics could ever go through. You know, and I think that they have no right to criticise me or evaluate my achievements.

And, you know, during these two years, I met a lot of high ranking politicians. And I want to say that usually men were more maybe arrogant, you know, communicating to me, you know, who are you, what can you tell me? And I really want to say thank you to the women I met on the beginning of my path. I remember my visit to Spain and Arancha was a leader whom I met, and she was so kind to me. You know, she saw that I'm like, I don't feel confident, and she told me look, everything is fine. Let's sit and talk as women about your country, about your pain, about your people. And it gave me more confidence.

And, you know, I'm grateful to Roberta Metsola, Annalena Baerbock, to Madeleine Albright, who were, you know, talking to me like an equal. I understood that I'm not of such highness in politics as these woman, but the attitude gave me this support at that moment.

I know how I can make the situation in Belarus better. And all those women on my path are helping me. They are encouraging me. And I know that, you know, women in politics are kinder than men.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you so much. Arancha, we've talked about solidarity. We've talked about male leaders stepping up and supporting women. We've talked about role models, women supporting women and purpose. Purpose-driven leadership being core of what women's leadership is often known for. What else would you add to that list of how we get more women into positions of power?

Arancha Gonzalez Laya: Yeah, I think we've been told that this will happen organically, right? That women would go to university, that they first would go to school. Let's not forget, girls in many places are not allowed to go to school. So we would have girls going to school. Then girls would go to university, then they will enter into the professional workforce and they will make the way up to the top organically. So now we know this is not true and therefore we need a much more deterministic approach, a tougher approach where we set goals, where we put objectives. And if this is not voluntary, then it will have to be compulsory, but we will have to be much tougher at ensuring this dream of parity becomes a reality.

Now, we will also have to be tougher about these places where, for reasons that have nothing to do with religion, with anthropology, with politics, women and girls are excluded from the very basics, starting with the school. And I have to say that on this one, it's good to be compassionate. It is good to complain, but in my view, we need to do a little bit more. We cannot, we should not accept. This is about girls whose future is curtailed by not being able to go to school. There is no religion in the world that would want that. There is no anthropological explanation. There is no political excuse.

So all I'm saying, Saadia, I guess, is that we have to be a little bit more activistic. And for that, my sense is that this conversation cannot just be with women leaders. That it has to be with men and women seated around the table. Because at the end of the day, what we want is a society that is more solid.

Saadia Zahidi: Can I come back to men?

Masih Alinejad: How many men are here?

Saadia Zahidi: Can I come back to you for one other quick question: quotas?

Arancha Gonzalez Laya: You know, I was educated in a family, I mean, my mother, my grandmothers. I mean, they treated me exactly like my brother. So in our family, there was no difference. And therefore, I thought that this business of being a feminist and, you know, pushing for women's rights was maybe not necessary. But then I went into the workforce. Then I started to work and I saw this with my own eyes. And I realised that there were very often cases where I would be the only woman in the room for no reason, because there were very smart women outside the room, but they were just simply not invited. So. Yeah.

Saadia Zahidi: Yes, quotas.

Arancha Gonzalez Laya: If it's not going to happen organically, then, yes, we need quotas. You know, I faced this conversation when I became foreign minister of Spain. I looked at my list of ambassadors and for no good reason, I had lots of great women diplomats, very few women ambassadors and even less so in positions of, let's say, systemic importance to our country for no good reason. So, yeah, you set the quota. Yes, you fix objectives and yes, you measure it. And yes, you make sure that this is respected and you report on that.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you. You talked about your family and how you grew up and Masih, can I turn it over to you on that aspect of things? What inspired you? Who inspired you?

Masih Alinejad: Oh, my god. Yeah, that's a very difficult question for me because I grew up in a country where the educational system told me from the beginning, from the age of seven, that you're second class. So through all the TV and media, I was told that I'm going to be hanged by my hair if I don't cover them. So I'm going to make sure that I didn't have any role model through educational system, TV, media. But I had a tiny mother in the village who was not even able to read and write. She told me that — I mean, I grew up in a very poor family, we didn't have an inside bathroom, we had to use an outhouse, which during the night it was really dark — and I remember my mom used to tell me that if you are scared of the darkness, the darkness can swallow you whole, can devour you. But instead of being scared of the darkness, just open your eyes. Stare into the darkness. Then the darkness will disappear. That's how I learned to defeat the darkness.

As a woman who grew up, you know, in the Middle East, I experienced a lot of darkness, like women of Afghanistan, women of Iran, women of Iraq, women of Syria. We live and breathe with darkness. So this is how I learned. My mom inspired me to defeat the darkness by opening my eyes. And now you see that Iranian women are doing the same in the streets. They're opening their eyes. They’re going toward morality police. They're walking unarmed towards security forces. What do the police do to them?

I want to actually show you this is the picture of my women in my country. Police shot them in their eyes. Many women and men got blinded. Just because of asking for dignity and democracy. And these are the Rosa Parks of Iran. These are the women of suffrage and trying to tell the rest of the world, yes, if you talk about solidarity, you talk about determination. We have to have tough skin as well, because otherwise you're going to get kicked out from everywhere.

You know, we're being labelled the agent of the CIA, you're the agent of MI6, you're the agent of Mossad. But we, the women of the Middle East, we have agency and we have to be tough. We have to be determined and we have to fight every single day to take our space back from the dictators.

Saadia Zahidi: Governor, the same question to you. Who inspired you?

Gretchen Whitmer: I'm very fortunate that I grew up in a household with a lot of bold women, but I'll give credit to my father. It was my dad who was the one who pushed me and encouraged me and when I doubted myself he’s the one that gave me confidence. And that's why I think to your point, we need to have men sitting up here during these conversations. We need to have men who are working to eliminate the barriers that stand between female applicants and job opportunities because we will do this, continue to do this work, but until we all we have equity and power we will struggle. And that's why it is going to be important that not every young female is fortunate enough to have a dad like I did, someone who created some opportunities for me. And that's why it's on all of us to be a part of the solution. And we all benefit when we do. The things that women tackle, the way that we work together, the seats that we create for others at the table, that's what improves the quality of people's lives, the bottom lines of businesses, and creates real opportunity.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you. Sviatlana, your inspiration?

Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: You know, now I can name thousands of names who are inspiring me because I think that's every person who dared to challenge the regime in our country is inspiring me.

The first person it was my husband who started to oppose the regime, started to go from city to city asking people about their life. And then when he declared that he wants to participate in presidential elections, he was immediately detained.

Then when I, instead of my husband, ran for presidency, I was joined by two wonderful women, Maria Kalesnikava and [inaudible] for all of my presidential campaign, we went through it together.

You know, the uprising in 2020 after fraudulent elections, a lot of people had to flee Belarus because of repression. And Maria Kalesnikava, she also wanted the KGB also wanted to send her out of the country, and she took her passport to the border, not to let this people send you out of the country. And now she's in prison. She was imprisoned for 11 years in jail. And every day I see a little sign of little heroism in the Belarusian people, all those who are sacrificing their freedom, who are sacrificing the lives, their families, their comfortable life to give us the opportunity to continue this fight against dictatorship. They are my heroes, my inspiration. And I know that there are millions of people in Belarus who continue and their fight, so I have at least 9 million signs of inspiration for me.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you. With the series of shocks and crises that have unfolded, the polycrisis that we're in currently in the midst of, do we still even need a case for women in leadership? Don't we know that we have to do things differently? This is to any of you who'd like to start with that.

Arancha Gonzalez Laya: We know we have to do things differently, but maybe we need a bit more prodding and it doesn't have to be a separate part of our global conversation. You know, it doesn't have to be a conversation about geopolitics and chips and minerals and then about women. It has to be across. That's the way we will make it work. It has to be embedded as an integral part of a more solid economy, of a more solid company, of a more solid organization, of a more solid government, of a more solid institution. So, I would plead for putting this as an across, not just the box that we tick, that we've discussed women or women in leadership.

Saadia Zahidi: Governor?

Gretchen Whitmer: I agree.

Saadia Zahidi: Masih, would you like to add?

Masih Alinejad: I totally agree. I mean, the whole world knows this. I mean, I just love the the argument that you, made and I keep watching here, that we need more men to join us, especially right now, that Iranian men, because they are an example, that they're getting executed just because of supporting their sisters. So, we need more men to sit with us and do something in practice.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you. We have 5 minutes left, and I'd like to make sure that we talk a little bit about the future. We've talked about some of the challenges. We've talked about some of the pathways. What gives each of you hope for the future and how fast you think we can get to parity building off of that hope? Masih, could you start? Sviatlana, would you like to take that question?

Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: You know, I'm absolutely sure that so as we are talking about women today, that women are much more, much stronger than we sometimes think about ourselves.

You know, I can speak for myself personally. You know, I've just told my private story a little bit, you know, I have oldest son with the special needs and, you know, for ten years I rehabilitated my son not knowing was what was waiting for us ahead. I didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

But I knew that I have to work with my son every single day, you know, not depending on whether I have a headache or I have other problems. And the situation in in Belarus now is the same. And I feel the same. I don't know when we will get rid of the regime, when our thousands of political prisoners will be released, when we change our country for democracy. But I know that I have to work every day to reach this goal so I know what it is to be strong. I know that there are strong women around me. I know that there are strong women in big politics who understand me as well. So, I see hope in unity and in unity of women, first of all.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you. Hope in unity. Arancha.

Arancha Gonzalez Laya: Well, I have to say that I feel very humbled, frankly speaking, listening to women, strong women, like Sviatlana and Masih. I must say, I feel very, very humbled. I have to tell you something that gives me a lot of hope and a lot of courage, but bringing it a little bit closer to home. I am the Dean of a School of International Affairs. And what gives me hope is the students, the younger generation, the determination they have, they don't even ask why. They just say, what are we going to do and how can we change it? And that gives me enormous hope. And I make sure that they listen to stories like the ones that Sviatlana and Masih have to share because this is also what I'm sure will inspire them as much as it inspires me.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you very much. Governor, your source of hope?

Gretchen Whitmer: I’ll tell you. A precursor to January 6th than the United States played out in Michigan, about nine months before January 6th, we saw our Capitol inundated with people with weapons, making threats, hanging me in effigy. It was scary. And we saw it culminate in January 6th in our nation's capital. And in the United States, a midterm election, the party that is in the White House is historically a bad time for everyone else who's in that party when they are up for election in the middle of that term of the person in the White House. All of that being said, despite all of the anxiety and anger and division and politicisation and social media and misinformation, we had a midterm election in Michigan where I won re-election.

My attorney general, who also is a woman, won re-election. My secretary of State, who is also a woman, won re-election, my lieutenant governor, who is the first African-American lieutenant governor in Michigan history, also won re-election. And we passed a constitutional amendment to protect reproductive rights in the state of Michigan. And we flipped both our House and Senate.

And I share that because we now have the first black speaker of the House in Michigan history and the first woman Senate majority leader in the state of Michigan. And I share that because despite all history that would tell you that could never happen and all of the challenge that we've had to navigate, the people spoke with their votes and we now have an opportunity to lead for four more years. And that gives me hope that despite the misinformation and the anger, and you know how ugly politics has become, when the people are engaged and their voices count, you see real representation. And that that gives me hope and I hope that gives some of you hope as well.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you, and Masih — final word on hope to you and to the women of Iran.

Masih Alinejad: Guys. As you see it, I'm terribly sick. I'm very sorry about that, but I didn't want to cancel this. I wanted to come here because I'm hopeful, you know, and I see hope in unity. And I want to actually invite the whole world. To show your unity, solidarity with women of Iran and Afghanistan. I think the time has come for the whole world to see a women's march for women of Iran and Afghanistan. Sarina was only 17 years old. She got killed by the police in Iran. Nika was only 16 years old. And there are teenagers in Iran and Afghanistan. They are looking to us. So, when I see unity, I mean in practice we have to get together. Look at from China to Russia, Venezuela, Iran, all the dictators are more united than us who cares about equality, feminism, dignity, freedom. And that scares me.

You know, my life is being upside down because the Iranian government sent someone to kill me in New York, to kidnap me on US soil. I don't care about my life, but when I see that women of Iran are being killed and getting raped and women of Afghanistan being kicked out from school but still, we are not united. That scares me. And this is a unique time.

I hope we can get together and ask the leaders of democratic countries to isolate Taliban and Khamenei and their gang of killers. Otherwise, believe me, we're not going to win. We're not going to have freedom around the world if women of Iran and Afghanistan are not free. Thank you so much.

Saadia Zahidi: Thank you, Governor Whitmer. Thank you, Arancha. Thank you, Sviatlana. And thank you, Masih. Thank you for your leadership and for providing us with this inspiration today. Thank you, everyone.