Meet the Leader: astronaut Samantha Cristoforetti

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Robin Pomeroy, host, Radio Davos: Welcome to Radio Davos. This week, a great episode from our sister podcast Meet the Leader.

Samantha knows a thing or two about leadership and teamwork, she has lived in space sharing cramped conditions with fellow astronauts on the International Space Station.

We’ll be publishing a handful of Meet the Leader episodes here on Radio Davos over the summer, but you can find more than 200 interviews with leaders of business, politics, academia and beyond by searching for Meet the Leader wherever you get podcasts, or at wef.ch/podcasts.

Radio Davos will be back next week. Meanwhile enjoy this episode of Meet the Leader called “Why Great Teamwork Outperforms Raw Talent: An Astronaut Explains” hosted by my colleague Linda Lacina.

Samantha Cristoforetti, European Space Agency: You cannot be a good leader if you are not a good follower. In the astronaut world, these two things always come together. We've learned, sometimes even the hard way, with crews that did not perform very well, that just putting together these individual high performers did not necessarily mean that the crew was performing well and that the mission got done. And being a good follower means that it's active followership, it's empowering your leader so that the leader then can make the team successful, and in the end, just contributing to a shared purpose.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Welcome to Meet the Leader. My name is Linda Lacina and I am pleased to introduce you to Samantha Cristoforetti. She is an astronaut with ESA, that is the European Space Agency, and she's also a woman who has spent over a year in space across her missions. She's going to talk to us about what we can all learn from astronauts, leadership and cooperation. How are you, Samantha?

Samantha Cristoforetti, European Space Agency: Great. How are you, Linda?

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Very good. Very good. So, let's talk about one of your missions. You spent 200 days orbiting Earth on the International Space Station. What was a typical day like?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: The typical day on the International Space Station is very busy. We start at around 7.30 in the morning, where we touch base with the team. Now the team is not just the few of us who are orbiting Earth, the team is like this very diffused group of people across the world who all contribute to the planning and the execution of our activities.

So, kind of like in most maybe office jobs, we start the day with a meeting, except that it happens on space-to-ground and we talk to Mission Control in Houston and then in Huntsville and then we jump over to Munich and then all the way over to Japan and then back to Moscow. And then each one of us goes off to do the activities that are planned for the day, which can be, hopefully, a lot of science, that's the main reason why we are on ISS. But also, you know, ISS is a complex machine. We have to keep it in shape. So maybe we have to go and do some maintenance work. Maybe a cargo spaceship just arrived and there's like two tons of stuff that needs to be unloaded. Maybe we've got to talk briefly to students, to the media, to the general public on the ground. Or maybe it's a very special day when something very unique happens, like we have to do a space walk or we have to use the robotic arm to go and capture a vehicle that is arriving. So, every day is similar in structure, but very different in content. And then we meet again to wrap up the day on space-to-ground with all the control centres at the end of the day, around 7.30 in the evening.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And at 7.30, are you guys fully done?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: We should be, we should be. It can be that maybe somebody's running a little bit late and then of course we all pitch in and try to help the colleague wrap up the day so that we can all go off to our dinner or to our phone call to our family.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Of course, you guys trained for all this, but still, what surprised you? Two hundred days is a pretty long time. Was there anything that surprised you, either about sort of the longevity of the mission, maybe how you have changed during that time or just anything that's just surprised you?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: Well, it's interesting because you mentioned 200 days, but that was not the initial plan. We were supposed to come back around day 160, 170. And, I don't know if it surprised me or not, but when I was approaching that moment of coming back, I was getting really, really sad. I mean, I didn't want to go home. I was enjoying my life on board and it just, to me, it felt like I wasn't ready, that I wanted a little bit more of that extraterrestrial life, a little more of that opportunity of being fully light, weightless, of inhabiting space in the three dimensions and having that amazing look on Earth, of working with a team that had become family.

And, so I wasn't ready to come home. And, as it happens, there was a twist of fate, which was by itself a bad thing, but we lost a resupply spaceship – a Russian Progress cargo vehicle that didn't make it to the space station. And there was an investigation going on about why the rocket had failed, because that same type of rocket was going to bring the next crew, who were going to take over from us. And, so because there was that investigation into the accident, they delayed the next crew and asked us to stay an extra month on the space station. So all of this was bad. I mean, it was bad that we lost the spaceship and everything, but for me, personally, I was just happy that I got to stay in space a little bit longer.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: I think people forget about this, right? They forget about the fact that, hey, you guys train, you train so much to be able to go up in space. With somebody else, if their business trip got delayed by weeks and weeks and weeks, it would be a huge problem. But because it's such a special thing to be going up there, it's a bit of a joy.

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: It was definitely, in my case, definitely.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Absolutely, absolutely. And there's still a fair amount of isolation in space. How was it for you and how did it maybe help you with self-reflection?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So, I didn't find that difficult, to be honest, but it's also a question of personality, I think. I have some friends of mine who wouldn't even, I don't know, grab a bite alone because they're so socially driven, they need that social companionship all the time. So, if you have that kind of personality, maybe it might be a little bit more difficult. I'm somebody who enjoys a good balance. I enjoy being with people, but I also draw a lot of energy from just being on my own.

So in space, for me, it was the right balance. You're never alone. You have this crew who really becomes family. You have a constant interaction with people on the ground. In fact, I don't know if people are aware of that, but you are also, for most of the day, constantly observed, you are on camera, which also creates a bit of a dynamic, because if you know, in the back of your mind, you know that people are watching you all the time, the last thing that you feel is loneliness, on the contrary.

But then you have the opportunity of rebalancing it, you can find your quiet moments. You've got your little, we call them crew quarters, which is maybe probably not the right name, it's just kind of like a phone-booth sized little box that belongs to you and you have your sleeping bag in there and you can retreat to that little box or phone booth if you want to make a call to your family or you just want to be alone or watch a movie or whatever. So you can find the right balance and then as long as you have the right personality that can deal with that, with those limitations in terms of social life, I think you're going to be just fine.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: What trait did you depend on to find that balance?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: I think the respectfulness with which we dealt with each other and our needs, like, for example, it's normal that after the workday is over and everyone has done their phone call home, you gather to have dinner together. It's what usually spontaneously happens, but if somebody doesn't show up, that's also okay. You don't like knock on their door and it's like, hey, it's dinner time, what's going on? I mean, you just, you know, you're respectful of that. And it's, like, maybe this person needs a little bit of personal time. Now, if that happens a week in a row, then you might wanna check in with them and see if there is something going on, but usually, there is a lot of respect for each other's personal space and personal choices.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And, how were you different at the end of that mission compared to at the beginning?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So, if you're looking for like a profound, existential transformation, then yeah, I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint you. I don't think that, at least for me, going to space fundamentally changed my way of dealing with life. Certainly, you're more mature, because you have had a very intense experience professionally, but also from a human point of view.

I think you do have the opportunity up there to reflect about your place in the world and your responsibilities, not only to your community and to your family and maybe to your country, but really a little bit to humanity as a whole. You do have that opportunity of seeing with your own eyes every day how interconnected the planet is and how it's obvious when you look at it from space that whatever happens in a place eventually is going to affect everyone else, right? If people are suffering or going through a crisis somewhere, it's just impossible that it just stays confined there. So, we do have to take responsibility on a global scale if we can, if we have the opportunity, that doesn't mean that we don't have responsibilities to our family and our community, but it is important to keep that global perspective in mind.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: You also served on a mission as the International Space Station commander. What is that job? Tell me about that.

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: It's a little bit like a class leader, I would say. It's not like a commander, like in the military where you have this clear hierarchical authority and you're gonna take decisions and everybody's gonna say, yes sir, yes ma'am, definitely not. You're dealing with peers, with people who are just as smart as you, who are just as trained as you. Some of them might be a little bit less experienced than you because usually if you serve as commander it means that you've had already at least another mission. So maybe you've got somebody on the crew who was on the first mission and they're new and they need a little bit more guidance and support, but generally speaking, you're dealing with peers.

So your job is to coordinate, to ensure that there is smooth communication, that, you know, everybody's in a good place. Nobody's feeling left out of decision-making. Everybody's supported so they can do their job properly and then you kind of have to channel all of that with the communication with the ground, because an important part of the team is actually on the ground and, specifically, there is a person who is ultimately responsible for your mission, who is the lead flight director, who himself or herself has a gigantic team on the ground that they have to coordinate. And, so the two of you talk on a regular basis just to make sure that the needs of the crew are well known to the ground and taken into account, but also vice versa, that the crew understands the reasoning behind some decisions that are taken on the ground, because they also have a lot of problems to solve that, you know, we don't necessarily see.

So that very, very open communication and understanding, okay, what are all the problems and the stuff that is on your plate right now, that is really important for me to understand so that I can understand the decision-making and what are the issues up here in space that maybe you guys cannot fully grasp and so it's important that I communicate that clearly.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: There was an anecdote I heard you give. There was a former commander of yours, Astronaut Butch Wilmore, right? And he had sort of said something that stuck with you, that, you know, everybody on the crew needs to have a good experience. And that was sort of foremost in your mind as you were sort of taking on this role as commander. Can you tell me a little bit about that? How important is that idea? It seems very simple, but it's actually like really powerful. Tell me a little bit about that and why it was so important to you?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So, certainly one thing that was very important to me and I had actually learned that from ISS Commander, Butch Wilmore, that I served with on my first space flight, is to always remember that being in space is a special moment for every one of us. It's something that we have made sacrifices for, that our families have made sacrifices for, that we have looked forward to so much. And it might be our first and last flight, or our second and last flight, you might not come back to space again and this is on the mind of everyone. And so what Butch told us during the course of that first space flight I did and I really tried to keep that in mind in my second space flight, where I had a leadership role, is like, it's of utmost importance that each one of us has a good experience up here.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Absolutely. Well, I think there's also this element of, if someone's having a bad experience, that he prompted everyone to sort of be welcome to tell him, like, hey, this isn't working for me, that he wanted to make people feel like they were encouraged to speak up. Why is that sort of important to keep that door open about people's experience of work, as opposed to, hey my task isn't going as effectively, the experience of it, why is that so important?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So, when you make that a priority and you communicate that clearly to your team, people feel empowered to share with you if they're not having a good experience, right? Maybe they're performing very well in all of their tasks, but maybe there is something about a dynamic onboard or something that is going on and it's just preventing them from having a good experience. And so it's very important to empower them to to come to you and share so that you can find a solution together.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: I also think that any non-astronaut can take a lot from that. Again, it's a simple idea, but the experience that we all have of working with each other on a team in any business, in any company, in any organization, it matters. It matters how respectful we are to each other. It matters how pleasant it is. It matters if we're able to sit around a table at night and have a dinner together. That matters. And it makes the work go more easily and it makes it easier for people to innovate. Do you think this idea gets lost, that maybe we're sometimes so concerned about being effective that we're not also thinking about how are we doing this work? We're maybe too focused on what we're doing, rather than the how?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: Yeah, I think sometimes in a normal company office setting, that element of how are you experiencing your daily life at work gets a little bit lost in the metrics of how are you performing your tasks. To me, there's a difference between being a manager and being a leader. A manager can focus on the metrics and the outcome and the results and that might even work out well for him or her, at least for the short term. A leader, however, thinks first and foremost of the people.

The approach that I have learned throughout my career, and I think I try to apply when I'm in a leadership position, is like, you take care of the people and the people take care of the work. And so that's really important, because you've got to make sure people are having a good experience, are happy coming to work, are enjoying it and you've got to check in with them. I mean, you know ask those open-ended questions, which are not you know, how is this report coming along, but hey what's on your mind? What's going on? How are you doing?

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: What can non-astronauts learn from astronauts about cooperation? What can be doing?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So, the astronaut world is hyper-focused on cooperation. And I think this comes from lessons learned from the past. I think that in the past, there was very much a focus when you selected and trained astronauts on this individual performance and I think we've learned, sometimes even the hard way, with crews that did not perform very well, that just putting together these individual high performers did not necessarily mean that the crew was performing well and that the mission got done.

So the emphasis shifted quite clearly, both in the selection and then in what we try to train people for and what we set as expectations in terms of behaviour, shifted from the individual performance, which, of course, remains important, but very much shifted to what kind of team member are you, what kind of crewmate are you? And not only how good a leader you are, but also how good a follower you are.

In the astronaut world, these two things always come together, leadership and followership. I'm not sure that there's such an emphasis in the corporate world. I don't hear it that much. But in my world, leadership and followership come together. You cannot be a good leader if you are not a good follower. And being a good follower means that it's active followership, it's empowering your leader, so that the leader then can make the team successful, and in the end, just contributing to a shared purpose.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: In a very fragmented world, how can we all cooperate better?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So I think in a fragmented world, what's important is to save those elements of cooperation, even within a framework that is becoming more and more competitive, to actively look for those shared goals, those shared missions. For sure, those remain, right? There might be a lot of things on which we don't agree on or in which we decide that you know, we want to compete in, but there must be elements where we say, okay, this is a shared goal and on this we are going to make conscious, active decision to cooperate, which means that on this, we're going to keep that bridge standing. Because I think, you know, I think human history goes in cycles, right? You have these moments of extreme competition or even conflict, but inevitably, those are always followed by more peaceful periods in which cooperation is at the forefront again.

And it's a lot easier and more, if you want to say it in managerial terms, it's more efficient if those bridges are still standing, because then you can very easily and smoothly re-transition into an era of cooperation. I'm quite relaxed about it, because I do think sometimes competition, also on a geopolitical scale, can drive very fast-paced innovation. It can deliver very fast results. We've seen it in space, with the space race in the past and then, inevitably, these periods of cooperation take over again and those are the ones where you can really reap the benefits and consolidate them for the benefit of everyone.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: You've been very involved in developing, I'm gonna look at my notes, to make sure I say it correctly, Low Earth Orbit Cargo Return Capabilities. Can you tell us what that is and why that capability is so important?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: In the last couple of years, I've been heavily involved in a project of the European Space Agency, which is called the LEO Cargo Return Service. And it's about developing in Europe cargo transportation capabilities for the International Space Station initially, but also looking at what's coming next.

At the end of this decade, the ISS will be deorbited. Unfortunately, my home in space will be gone. It's going to reach the end of its operational life. And it's going to be replaced by one or potentially more new platforms developed by private companies. And the vision is that there is a thriving LEO ecosystem that develops where private companies offer those services, those platforms and industry, industries that are not necessarily space-related, use those opportunities to do research and technology development, to develop new technologies and potentially new products. And so Europe wants to be part of this and one of the basic capabilities that we need is transportation. So it's important for us, from a European point of view, to have that, let's say, sovereign independent capability of transportation in Low Earth Orbit. But again, if we zoom out and we look at this on the global scale, I think that there is globally a need for more vehicles, more transportation capabilities, so that we can drive up the cadence, the offer, so that transportation does not become a bottleneck to developing that thriving ecosystem in Low-Earth Orbit.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And how does it sort of help strengthen ESA's ability to, you know, either have better space security or also be able to transport humans independently, do its own work, how does it help with that?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So the development of these cargo vehicles, we're actually developing two, is an initial capability. And it's really important so that in this new ecosystem that is developing, we can remain partners and not like customers of services provided by others, but the hope, or let's say the dream of many of us, and certainly mine, is that it's just a first step and that once those vehicles are operational and proven, we can then further develop them so that they're capable of transporting crew as well.

And I always like to remind people, because it might not be salient to everyone, that people like me who've flown to space as European astronauts – in my case, for example, my first mission was on a Russian Soyuz vehicle, my second mission was on an American Dragon vehicle – we never had, and we still don't have in Europe, this autonomous capability of flying astronauts. And I think this is really important for us. Again, it's not because we don't want to cooperate or we want to do things on our own, but when you are in a partnership, you want to be in an equal partnership where you can exchange and share. And so, for the overall resilience of space exploration, having another crew transportation capability is really important. And so I think that in Europe, we have to step up to that responsibility.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: You were the first European female International Space Station commander. You were also the first female ESA astronaut to do a spacewalk. Women have historically been a fraction of astronauts, however, we're getting to parity. There's been some really good bright spots. I've got some notes here. It seems that, let's see here, that within the ESA career astronaut selection, there are two women and three men, but your astronaut reserves have 12 individuals, six of whom are women. And then the NASA, the most recent NASA selection, has a 50:50 ratio. What's going right with the pipeline?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: So I would say, I became an astronaut 15 years ago, and back then, in that era, female astronauts were definitely still a minority. But boy, it has changed in the last 15 years. I mean, the last selections, both with NASA and with ESA, are pretty much a 50:50 split. And it's not because we've put quotas or anything like that, it's just because a lot has changed in the pipeline, in those careers from which we recruit astronauts, which are the STEM careers, so you know we're looking for engineers, we're looking for scientists, we are looking for medical doctors, mathematicians and or people who come from an aviation background, so pilots especially, test pilots with a lot of flying experience or a mix of both, which was my case. So, there's a lot that happened in the pipeline in the last 15 years, which is incredibly encouraging. And, I will say, by the way, that an amazing colleague, a new colleague of mine, Sophie Adenot, is going to fly very soon to the International Space Station and she's going to make us proud.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: I have one last question for you. We've got one minute left. What should leaders be prioritizing in 2026?

Samantha Cristoforetti, Astronaut, European Space Agency: I think in 2026 leaders need to prioritize helping teams find meaning in a world that can be disorientating, right? When you are disoriented, it's not so easy to find your path and that thing that drives your effort and your performance every day and I think that it's the ultimate responsibility and probably the hardest thing for leaders to do this year.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Thank you very much, Samantha. And thanks so much to you for listening and for watching. For more video podcasts, please go to the World Economic Forum's YouTube channel and for more podcasts and podcast transcripts, go to https://www.weforum.org/podcasts.